I love this book! I was curious if you have an answer for this: How should an Exorcist's death be handled after the mission? Is it expected that the player makes a new character with the same level and CAT? Or are they expected to make a character that is base level and CAT 1?
A rules question I couldn't for the life of me find an answer to: Does using a blasphemy in a conflict scene always require an action, even when the power does not roll PSYCHE or (directly) affect a talisman?
On page 43 it says that players can perform an action once on their turn, which includes anything involving one of the courses of action (like Act, Defend, and the others listed). This would mean anything that helps on the fight/conflict, including the use of blasphemies for those objectives (wheter it be setting up an ally, using objects, assess the situation for advantages, etc).
Heya! Thanks for the fixes in 1.1 - I think the update broke the links at the contents page though, if possible would be great to have those fixed in a future release c:
hello, I'd love to print out hte booklet but your pdf is not printer friendly, could we have a single page, inverted colors version maybe? thank you in advance
Hi! I love the game but would really like to print it booklet style, but that's pretty difficult with the only pdf option being spreads. Is a singles version of the pdf in the cards?
First I love the system and how creative you allow the flow to be, while making it challenging and potentially rewarding for players. Even having the abilities having some open-endedness to allow cross Blasphemies synergy.
This is more of a ruling question, is there mechanical/narrative benefit or importance to having a CAT on weapons, since using weapons on SINS are already considered Hard? Like would increasing CAT just make it so we can do more anime-like stuff in the higher level, like a CAT 4 exorcist with a CAT 3 sword can bisect a building with a Hard force roll? Or a CAT 2 exorcist with a CAT 1 pistol is able to snipe like it has a range of a rifle rather than a handgun?
I just to want to understand the benefit the characters would get from spending 60% of a successful, no death, mission payout on an upgrade like this.
Also, Horde Spirit's speed bonus is pretty small at the moment, especially at low CAT levels - would it be reasonable to raise that power to giving CAT+1 or maybe even CAT+2 speed? That way, a CAT 1 Exorcist could have the equivalent of a horse or something at will, rather than spending a Psyche Burst to... Get the speed of a fast human.
In page 18 is explained that category can be used by the Admin to determine the nature of dice rolls. While this part wasn't changed on the 1.1 update (It only talks about the exorcists and their powers), I asume that it also extends to the weapons, so higher CAT weapons would be more destructive/powerful (as a house rule, with the integration of category on weapons I'm also asking my players to choose/describe their weapons according to their CAT, so as they are on CAT 2 now, they still have no access to highly destructive weapons), and maybe even make certain actions don't even require rolls. An example I'm thinking is using like a CAT 4 weapon against mercenaries or police forces (which are normal humans), I wouldn't even ask for the roll then, they just kill/obliterate them.
Hi Tom with the CAIN 1.0 pdf i was able too click on the contents page too view that page but with CAIN 1.1 i am no longer able too also im very much enoying the changes with CAIN 1.1 amazign work as always
Hey Tom, I wanted to get your feelings on fan content and supplementary material. What's your stance on publishing modules, new blasphemies, sins, and such, both paid and/or unpaid?
I really like the licensing system you have for Lancer, and love seeing all the cool stuff coming out of that. I don't remember seeing an official stance on Maleghast, but I know I've seen some homebrew cults and rulesets posted on here and elsewhere for free. So I just wanted to get some clarity before I think about publishing something I shouldn't.
Hello! Me and my group are in love with the game, one of the best narrative experiences we have ever had!
That said I do have just single spot of constructive criticism: My players have noticed that the Blasphemies- Whisper, Edit, Bind, and Especially Palace, do not scale especially well with CAT rating. We sort of a house rule a few adjustments to the abilities to help these players feel like they are keeping up with the Tension and Ardence in the group, but it may bear a second look at the scaling of these Blasphemies.
Othee than this small observation, its been a killer time!
As an Edit player, I love this! Would be cool to be able to use Utility according to CAT instead of just manifesting things the size of a small room every time, for example.
It will be very useful, but I also love your art. An spare page versión would be still beautiful and easy to print, but i don't know if its very hard to create....
holy shit this is it, this takes my number two spot for favourite ttrpg setting, idk how the hell ill do it but im gonna fuckin buy this and find a group of people to play it with
Hi. Game looks really interesting y'all. I see at the bottom of the game description the words "a new narrative role playing game." As Tom Bloom is well known for Lancer, with its 4E level of crunch, how "narrative" is Cain? Are we expecting FATE levels of narrative tags used in combat? Is it just as crunchy as Lancer? Or is it something else?
CAIN is 100% a narrative game. If you have played ICON, it is kind of JUST the narrative part of that game. By which I mean this isn't like Lancer at all, it's a game about investigating a mystery and using weird powers creatively to solve problems in a freeform way. There isn't combat but a conflict scene instead, much more open ended with talismans representing progress on certain tasks, including executing monsters.
The most "crunchy" part of the game are the powers. They aren't as open as FATE aspects, they have certain restrictions, but at the same time they require the table to work together to reach a consensus about how they can be used in the current narrative context.
Anyway, I would say this is more of a vibes based game, much more writer’s room style than wargame. The table needs to work together to tell a story about trauma and dehumanization while using cool powers to do weird shit.
Really badass game and visual style as usual, but the PDF could be organised a bit better. My personal opinion is that the character-building stuff (skills, Blasphemies, Agenda) should be all together at the start of the PDF, as it's kind of annoying to hop back and forth between the various categories trying to determine what's "thematically appropriate" for a character with such-and-such Agenda.
i a have some questions about "Bind", like what kind of sin can it be, how big can it start as, does it CAT levelup with you, can it be a LORD looking sin, can it get or use weapons and have sin powers? Does it use you stats or does it have its own (meaning if i have bad stats for fighting, is the sin also bad at fighting?) I also do not like that i have to give my action to my sin for it to do something, not saying i want to do 2 thing at once, but if it could help me or my team just by giving a +1 well i also hit the big bad boss, i would be happy with that.
Also your passive to bind sins has no real saying what you can and cannot bind, what is the check and what type of sin can i bind, if i do bind it, do i get to use their powers as well? Why keep your starting sin if you can go out and bind better ones. Does the only thing on bind for CAT just effect forbidden spirit or am i not reading it right?
Would love to see BIND with a some more clear guide lines so i can quick rule or tell someone what they can and cannot do. Any help is welcomed.
It is a nonspecific sin type, that takes the form of an animal unless you use a power. Its capabilities without using your powers to enhance it are CAT 0. It does not have any stats, instead using your skills. It cannot have sin abilities. If you are bad at fighting there are one or two BIND abilities that will still give your sin an edge in combat, but it costs a psyche burst and isnt permanent. Your passive does actually specify that you have a single bound sin at the start of the game, and has no actual rules text discussing binding additional sins (likely because it would seriously fuck up game flow to allow exorcists to bind sins instead of executing them at the end of a hunt).
There is a homebrew project in the works to revamp binding, I am not sure the progress on it. I have played with a binder in my party and its really not that bad as is, and the rules are pretty clear in my opinion. It lacks the Fushiguro flavor that I think it deserves, but as is it is functional enough for me to use and flexible enough for me to make on the spot rulings and homebrew new ideas.
I ran the game yesterday and its a blast. I noticed its not in the influences so if you haven't checked it out you should watch Mononoke, it has a similar vibe to the investigations in this game and its fire. I love the game, keep making cool stuff man
Are there any plans to make this into a physical edition in the future? If so, I would absolutely want to get a copy if just for the awesome artwork alone. It would also make game sessions a bit easier if a laptop was not available.
I have no idea where submitting comments on game balance would go, but the Forbidden Spirit power seems wildly out of line with every other combat ability. The five other powers which you might use to attack a Sin directly - Severance, Fury, Sabre, Fling and Bullet - all cost essentially 1 psyche burst in exchange for 1 attack done at CAT scale that can get on average 0-2 extra dice.
These act as upgrades over the Blast power does an attack at CAT scale, but has a chance to fail and lacks range or dice boosts. Fair enough.
Meanwhile Forbidden Spirit, in exchange for 1 psyche burst, will give you that much - a CAT scale attack with +1D - but will then keep attacking, for as long as the exorcist is willing to take whatever stress it's taking. It also gets one free chance to ignore stress.
A CAT 5 Exorcist with Fling can toss around 8 eighteen-wheelers but then have a SIN overflow, while a CAT 5 Binder can tell their pokemon to toss 8 eighteen-wheelers and unless someone shoots it with an anti-tank missile it only costs one psyche burst.
2nd this. I love the layout but it's really hard to read without having to blow it up and move it around the screen. A single page version would be much appreciated.
This if a very cool looking game, I'm obsessed already. Two errors I noticed, first is that the Edit page is missing a table of contents entry, and second is that on the Sin Marks spread under "4. Arms or Hands" it says "split hand or harm" where I think it should say "arm".
It's a group RPG. Like a lot of games, there's a GM (called the Admin) who runs the scenario, with player characters overcoming the challenges set forth by the Admin.
Given the right tools, most group RPGs can be soloed. I'll have to read the rules to see what would be a good fit (Just bought the game.) Sight unseen, Mythic GME is always a good call. Because I'm a tarot junkie, I'd also consider Four Houses in Chaos, if I found a deck that matches the theme.
I am not experienced with PDF design so I don't know how much of an ask this is but is there a way to have a light version of the rulebook so I can print it without using a ton of ink on the white on black page style?
please and thank you, totally get it if unfeasible
In the CAINsheets.pdf the CAT scale is blank. Also, could you make them individual pages, since printing them out is a huge pain otherwise and leads to them being all blurry since I have to use screenshots.
you can print individual pages of a pdf from the print screen by selecting pages, custom, on windows. Or on mac you can open the pdf in the preview app, View, Thumbnails, Command-click the thumbnails of the pages you want to print. I hope this solves your issue, and I hope this improves your experience with future pdfs :D
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what is this? an rug or is it soluble? is this a miniatures game?
I love this book! I was curious if you have an answer for this:
How should an Exorcist's death be handled after the mission? Is it expected that the player makes a new character with the same level and CAT? Or are they expected to make a character that is base level and CAT 1?
Amazing book, my main issue with it is that the pen on page 85 says see note. WHERE'S THE NOTE TOM?!
Hey, for some reason Edit isn't listed on the table of contents
Is there a paper version?
Hi Tom,
A rules question I couldn't for the life of me find an answer to: Does using a blasphemy in a conflict scene always require an action, even when the power does not roll PSYCHE or (directly) affect a talisman?
On page 43 it says that players can perform an action once on their turn, which includes anything involving one of the courses of action (like Act, Defend, and the others listed). This would mean anything that helps on the fight/conflict, including the use of blasphemies for those objectives (wheter it be setting up an ally, using objects, assess the situation for advantages, etc).
Hi, is there alternative method to buy this game ? I live in country that dosent support pay pal or master card.
Is there a discord for this yet? I have a few questions for running it.
if you go to the lancer discord (Pilot NET) there are a couple dedicated CAIN channels where you can ask stuff <3
Heya! Thanks for the fixes in 1.1 - I think the update broke the links at the contents page though, if possible would be great to have those fixed in a future release c:
fix coming for this shortly
hello, I'd love to print out hte booklet but your pdf is not printer friendly, could we have a single page, inverted colors version maybe? thank you in advance
Yep!
I was wondering of there was anywhere I could read into the world of Cain more.
It is an absolutely fascinating place.
Side note, are you a Dorohedoro fan? Me and my friend were debating if you were or not based off some of the content youve made.
Hi! I love the game but would really like to print it booklet style, but that's pretty difficult with the only pdf option being spreads. Is a singles version of the pdf in the cards?
Hello Mr. Bloom,
First I love the system and how creative you allow the flow to be, while making it challenging and potentially rewarding for players. Even having the abilities having some open-endedness to allow cross Blasphemies synergy.
This is more of a ruling question, is there mechanical/narrative benefit or importance to having a CAT on weapons, since using weapons on SINS are already considered Hard? Like would increasing CAT just make it so we can do more anime-like stuff in the higher level, like a CAT 4 exorcist with a CAT 3 sword can bisect a building with a Hard force roll? Or a CAT 2 exorcist with a CAT 1 pistol is able to snipe like it has a range of a rifle rather than a handgun?
I just to want to understand the benefit the characters would get from spending 60% of a successful, no death, mission payout on an upgrade like this.
I'm seconding this question as well.
Also, Horde Spirit's speed bonus is pretty small at the moment, especially at low CAT levels - would it be reasonable to raise that power to giving CAT+1 or maybe even CAT+2 speed? That way, a CAT 1 Exorcist could have the equivalent of a horse or something at will, rather than spending a Psyche Burst to... Get the speed of a fast human.
All great questions, would recommend heading to either the CAIN discord server or the CAIN section in the Pilot.net LANCER discord c:
In page 18 is explained that category can be used by the Admin to determine the nature of dice rolls. While this part wasn't changed on the 1.1 update (It only talks about the exorcists and their powers), I asume that it also extends to the weapons, so higher CAT weapons would be more destructive/powerful (as a house rule, with the integration of category on weapons I'm also asking my players to choose/describe their weapons according to their CAT, so as they are on CAT 2 now, they still have no access to highly destructive weapons), and maybe even make certain actions don't even require rolls.
An example I'm thinking is using like a CAT 4 weapon against mercenaries or police forces (which are normal humans), I wouldn't even ask for the roll then, they just kill/obliterate them.
I have to ask this but I really looove this concept, can I take inspiration for it for my worldbuiling or personal projects? If not that is a-okay.
would it be possible to add community copies?
Hi Tom with the CAIN 1.0 pdf i was able too click on the contents page too view that page but with CAIN 1.1 i am no longer able too
also im very much enoying the changes with CAIN 1.1 amazign work as always
Hey Tom, I wanted to get your feelings on fan content and supplementary material. What's your stance on publishing modules, new blasphemies, sins, and such, both paid and/or unpaid?
I really like the licensing system you have for Lancer, and love seeing all the cool stuff coming out of that. I don't remember seeing an official stance on Maleghast, but I know I've seen some homebrew cults and rulesets posted on here and elsewhere for free. So I just wanted to get some clarity before I think about publishing something I shouldn't.
A-ok as long as you don't reproduce text or art from the main book
If you do create homebrew content such as new blasphemies, I'd be very interested to see them and possibly run them!
Hello! Me and my group are in love with the game, one of the best narrative experiences we have ever had!
That said I do have just single spot of constructive criticism: My players have noticed that the Blasphemies- Whisper, Edit, Bind, and Especially Palace, do not scale especially well with CAT rating. We sort of a house rule a few adjustments to the abilities to help these players feel like they are keeping up with the Tension and Ardence in the group, but it may bear a second look at the scaling of these Blasphemies.
Othee than this small observation, its been a killer time!
As an Edit player, I love this! Would be cool to be able to use Utility according to CAT instead of just manifesting things the size of a small room every time, for example.
Hey I have a small question, is there by any chance will be more monster compendiums in future developments?
Hi,
I would love to print this but this format is very difficult.
Can you make a spare page version?
Thanks for your work!
I am planning to release a version with no art or art style formatting.
It will be very useful, but I also love your art.
An spare page versión would be still beautiful and easy to print, but i don't know if its very hard to create....
will there be community copies available at some point?
Are there planes on putting the character sheets on virtual tabletop sites like Roll20 and Foundry?
There is a community built module for Foundry already: https://github.com/diabeatz96/cain
Did the blasphemies purposefully or accidentally have a similar color sets to the skills from disco Elysium?
holy shit this is it, this takes my number two spot for favourite ttrpg setting, idk how the hell ill do it but im gonna fuckin buy this and find a group of people to play it with
Okay now you have to tell us your #1?!?!
Hi. Game looks really interesting y'all. I see at the bottom of the game description the words "a new narrative role playing game." As Tom Bloom is well known for Lancer, with its 4E level of crunch, how "narrative" is Cain? Are we expecting FATE levels of narrative tags used in combat? Is it just as crunchy as Lancer? Or is it something else?
CAIN is 100% a narrative game. If you have played ICON, it is kind of JUST the narrative part of that game. By which I mean this isn't like Lancer at all, it's a game about investigating a mystery and using weird powers creatively to solve problems in a freeform way. There isn't combat but a conflict scene instead, much more open ended with talismans representing progress on certain tasks, including executing monsters.
The most "crunchy" part of the game are the powers. They aren't as open as FATE aspects, they have certain restrictions, but at the same time they require the table to work together to reach a consensus about how they can be used in the current narrative context.
Anyway, I would say this is more of a vibes based game, much more writer’s room style than wargame. The table needs to work together to tell a story about trauma and dehumanization while using cool powers to do weird shit.
Okay, thanks for the help! :)
Giving me big Persona/Shin megami tensei vibes
Can we expect a 1.1 version with the typos fixed?
I plan a release later this year or early next
Really badass game and visual style as usual, but the PDF could be organised a bit better. My personal opinion is that the character-building stuff (skills, Blasphemies, Agenda) should be all together at the start of the PDF, as it's kind of annoying to hop back and forth between the various categories trying to determine what's "thematically appropriate" for a character with such-and-such Agenda.
i a have some questions about "Bind", like what kind of sin can it be, how big can it start as, does it CAT levelup with you, can it be a LORD looking sin, can it get or use weapons and have sin powers? Does it use you stats or does it have its own (meaning if i have bad stats for fighting, is the sin also bad at fighting?) I also do not like that i have to give my action to my sin for it to do something, not saying i want to do 2 thing at once, but if it could help me or my team just by giving a +1 well i also hit the big bad boss, i would be happy with that.
Also your passive to bind sins has no real saying what you can and cannot bind, what is the check and what type of sin can i bind, if i do bind it, do i get to use their powers as well? Why keep your starting sin if you can go out and bind better ones. Does the only thing on bind for CAT just effect forbidden spirit or am i not reading it right?
Would love to see BIND with a some more clear guide lines so i can quick rule or tell someone what they can and cannot do. Any help is welcomed.
This is just my view on bind
It is a nonspecific sin type, that takes the form of an animal unless you use a power. Its capabilities without using your powers to enhance it are CAT 0. It does not have any stats, instead using your skills. It cannot have sin abilities. If you are bad at fighting there are one or two BIND abilities that will still give your sin an edge in combat, but it costs a psyche burst and isnt permanent. Your passive does actually specify that you have a single bound sin at the start of the game, and has no actual rules text discussing binding additional sins (likely because it would seriously fuck up game flow to allow exorcists to bind sins instead of executing them at the end of a hunt).
There is a homebrew project in the works to revamp binding, I am not sure the progress on it. I have played with a binder in my party and its really not that bad as is, and the rules are pretty clear in my opinion. It lacks the Fushiguro flavor that I think it deserves, but as is it is functional enough for me to use and flexible enough for me to make on the spot rulings and homebrew new ideas.
It would be cool if you released a more print friendly version
Yeah, I can already see the face of my copy center employee when I arrive with this..
Came here to say this, the sheet invites having strips of paper stuck to it but it's design discourages actually printing it out.
I ran the game yesterday and its a blast. I noticed its not in the influences so if you haven't checked it out you should watch Mononoke, it has a similar vibe to the investigations in this game and its fire. I love the game, keep making cool stuff man
Are there any plans to make this into a physical edition in the future? If so, I would absolutely want to get a copy if just for the awesome artwork alone. It would also make game sessions a bit easier if a laptop was not available.
Could we get a single page version together with spreads? It is kind of unwieldy on mobile device.
Rad game!
I have no idea where submitting comments on game balance would go, but the Forbidden Spirit power seems wildly out of line with every other combat ability. The five other powers which you might use to attack a Sin directly - Severance, Fury, Sabre, Fling and Bullet - all cost essentially 1 psyche burst in exchange for 1 attack done at CAT scale that can get on average 0-2 extra dice.
These act as upgrades over the Blast power does an attack at CAT scale, but has a chance to fail and lacks range or dice boosts. Fair enough.
Meanwhile Forbidden Spirit, in exchange for 1 psyche burst, will give you that much - a CAT scale attack with +1D - but will then keep attacking, for as long as the exorcist is willing to take whatever stress it's taking. It also gets one free chance to ignore stress.
A CAT 5 Exorcist with Fling can toss around 8 eighteen-wheelers but then have a SIN overflow, while a CAT 5 Binder can tell their pokemon to toss 8 eighteen-wheelers and unless someone shoots it with an anti-tank missile it only costs one psyche burst.
Is there going to be a single page pdf release?
Spreads are really hard to read on mobile
2nd this. I love the layout but it's really hard to read without having to blow it up and move it around the screen. A single page version would be much appreciated.
This if a very cool looking game, I'm obsessed already. Two errors I noticed, first is that the Edit page is missing a table of contents entry, and second is that on the Sin Marks spread under "4. Arms or Hands" it says "split hand or harm" where I think it should say "arm".
Love what ive read so far of this game just hoping we get some more printer friendly versions of character sheets soon
Is this a solo RPG or meant to be played with a group?
It's a group RPG. Like a lot of games, there's a GM (called the Admin) who runs the scenario, with player characters overcoming the challenges set forth by the Admin.
Given the right tools, most group RPGs can be soloed. I'll have to read the rules to see what would be a good fit (Just bought the game.) Sight unseen, Mythic GME is always a good call. Because I'm a tarot junkie, I'd also consider Four Houses in Chaos, if I found a deck that matches the theme.
if it's suited to play solo, please do share!! im very new to ttrpgs and am not good at "adapting" rules to fit solo play. thanks :)
Are you familiar with oracles and their use? They are GM emulators and the way they work is not by adapting the rules so much as adding procedures to help in GMing yourself. (Most solo play is a matter of wearing multiple hats for player and GM.) Let me throw out a few links and you can check those out and see if the idea clicks for you.
CRGE - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/145426/crge-conjectural-roleplaying-gm-e... (pwyw)
FHiC - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/392514/four-houses-in-chaos (free)
Thank you this is so helpful!!
I am not experienced with PDF design so I don't know how much of an ask this is
but is there a way to have a light version of the rulebook so I can print it without using a ton of ink on the white on black page style?
please and thank you, totally get it if unfeasible
In the CAINsheets.pdf the CAT scale is blank. Also, could you make them individual pages, since printing them out is a huge pain otherwise and leads to them being all blurry since I have to use screenshots.
you can print individual pages of a pdf from the print screen by selecting pages, custom, on windows. Or on mac you can open the pdf in the preview app, View, Thumbnails, Command-click the thumbnails of the pages you want to print. I hope this solves your issue, and I hope this improves your experience with future pdfs :D
The issue was that print screen ruined the fidelity for printing. I used gimp to edit the pdf and that worked well.